Time For Acceptance

Thanks Lou sadly I think our boats are sailing closer together so you probably understand better how difficult it is to sit back and watch your son make his own mistakes when every ounce of instinct you possess is screaming.

Thank you for sharing your experience, I didn't imagine I was the only one going through this in the world but to read it provides comfort in knowing that at least you understand.

My ex was unreasonable throughout our marriage, and it is unreasonable of me to expect anything different post divorce oopps sorry Gargoyle there I go again berating the poor man

Gargoyle,

The problem mummybear has with her ex is to do with a range of behaviour which she doesn't believe is a good influence for her impressionable young son. She's entitled to that opinion, and unless you're calling her an out and out liar, you must be able to understand her concern about how this might influence her son. Biased perhaps, but still reasonable as a concerned parent.

You put forward the issue of her son's choice as the primary issue. The question she is asking is whether her son *is* able to make a decision in his own best interest, given his age and the complexity of the breakup and acrimonious co-parenting relationship. As many have pointed out here, teenagers wish to do all sorts of things which are not good for them, and in a normal family situation the parental role is to work out which decisions they are ready to make, and which they are not. Mummybear puts forward a cogent argument for suggesting she thinks her son is not ready to make this one. She believes his decision might have been motivated by his father being more permissive - something most teenagers crave, and can do themselves great harm with in various ways.

She is angry at her ex because she believes he has negatively influenced her son's relationship with her, and this has led to this decision and apparent falsehoods regarding her parenting. Also she is very angry at the system for being primarily guided by the son's opinion rather than trying to make a more objective judgement about which parent might be the best place for her son. All reasonable and understandable reactions for someone who believes their ex is morally and legally questionable.

Your argument (and it is an extremely flimsy one given that you know nothing about the situation) is that the son prefers to live with Dad, and therefore he must be a good guy and mum must be the nutter/liar. Also that getting what he wants is necessarily good for him. Neither of those premises stand up to the most basic criticism, because pretty much everyone here knows that a 13 year old's judgement is questionable at the best of times about big life issues. You also suggest that it's unlikely he would make things up about his mother - we all know (and remember ourselves) that children and particularly early adolescents say what they think will get them what they want.

I'm not saying that I know that MB is right, but I can see why she feels the way she does, and given that she has posted on here for support, I'd like to think we can offer that to her.

On the other hand, an increasing number of posters here are getting tired of you being argumentative for no good reason, and worse still, for showing a complete lack of compassion or empathy in your responses. Of course there's another side to this story, and we appreciate we are always seeing a situation through the distortion of one person's point of view. But none of that makes MB's pain, concern, panic, and grief any less real. All of us should be able to find compassion for a parent who is panic stricken that their child is going into a situation which may have dreadful consequences.

If you can't muster up some empathy, perhaps you should stop posting. And if you're only posting to stir things up .... shame shame on you.

Wow Elvis you have grasped it thank you, thank you, thank you. My ex apparently told my brother-in-law that he thought I was a brilliant mother but a crap wife and I accept that totally I don't think Gargoyle could cope with the reasons why I was a crap wife as it would mean denigrating the poor man further but there are many on here who already know the under lying reasons I was a crap wife and thats more than enough for me

The subject heading Time for Acceptance should demonstrate to Gargoyle that I have eventually accepted what my ex, and social services believe it is in my son's best interests on the grounds of his "wishes and feelings" and this post was made on the basis that I was struggling as to whether or not I could continue being in my son's life as surely accepting his decision and accepting his behaviour are two totally separate issues.

The saddest part really is that my ex has already told me he knows that our son plays us off against each other but whilst the ball is in his garden why would he throw it back if he was enjoying playing with it ?

Mummybear,
I can understand your frustration that the law yet again has put the decision of a 13 year old as the main criteria in deciding where he should be raised.
Not all kids are easy to raise. I see a lot of people extolling the virtues of their kids on here as if they are sent from heaven,but ultimately kids are people.You get easy going ones and difficult ones.
13 year old boy is rebelling.Dad seems the easy option.Your son prolly has some thuggish tendencies so Dad seems great and mum who is going to discipline him is not such a good option.
My boy ain't easy he's always arguing with his sister,stropping,swearing,lazy,pretty much if it weren't my son sometimes I wouldn't even bother hanging around to see the bit of time when he is alright.
You've got to adapt and take on thne role of weekend mum to this one like us Dad's have to.You let him know you love him but not too ott that you're there.Don't slag the old man off no matter how much you want to and parent him how you do by your house rules when he's with you.
What him and your ex do in their time try and think doesn't exist but when he is under your roof it's your rules.
If he continues to hit the other kids hard in the face then you'll have to tell him in your house that isn't acceptable and that he can only come if that doesn't happen.
You ain't gonna like it but you are very much in a situation know on this child like the ex husband ends up in when he gets bin bagged by the ex misus.Limited contact etc etc so just trying to give you a perspective on how to deal with it.
All the best
Pete xx

Thank you Haway (and boy have you kept me going over the past few months reading your posts have brought me many a smile in my darkest hours)you seem to have grasped the concept here and I thank you for not beating me with the stick of "well now you know how all the dads feel." I actually didn't need this to happen to understand that as I think is clear from my posts in support of those dads. Agree I have to get on with it and try not to dwell on the detentions for not handing in homework, receiving texts from my well meaning friends telling me they have seen my son hanging around the marketplace late in the evening on school nights etc etc and hope that somewhere along the line my limited contact and input will eventually stir something.

I agree that I am going to have to stand by my house rules as it were (they are not actually that difficult or harsh and simply commonsense more than authoritarian) and be brave enough to tell my son that if he doesn't like it he can go back to dad (I'm not ready or brave enough for that yet as I couldn't bear to see the pain in his face if he thought for one minute I was rejecting him - yes I know I know my own worst enemy lol).

Can put my hand on my heart and my bible to say that I have never denigrated their father to the children - in fact my crime is one of encouraging them to think highly of him (they of course are not aware yet of his lifestyle choices although I think my elder son has a realisation in part as he has told me odd snippets in that out of the mouths of babes and angels lol and in between me beating him senseless and not hugging him

Its only 18 months ago my son came out of school and burst into tears when he saw me. He had a bruise on his cheek. He had been involved in a fight with a boy who had said something along the lines of "my dad says your dad is just a meat head who needs bringing down a peg or two." Firstly I was devastated for my son and comforted him (all the time going through my head oh no my ex's reputation is now affecting our children) and responded to my son by saying "well tomorrow tell your friend to tell his dad to tell your dad to his face" i.e. showing support for his dad's image as the local hard man although inside knowing that what this lad's dad had said was true and in fact now realise I shouldn't have supported the ex in that way as I was only encouraging the adoration of a man not really worth it. Hindsight a wonderful thing.

During my ahem differing view points with Gargoyle earlier I had a phonecall from my son:

"hey up mum its me, dad is at his mates and me maths homework needs to be done by tomorrow and I don't know what 4 by the power of 4 means"

I then spent half an hour explaining to my son what it meant i.e. 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 and helped him with a few of the answers along the way until the penny dropped - during the conversation I could hear my ex in the background, "she's a smart arse"

Why couldn't my son just say "mum I need your help with my homework" why did he lie and say that his dad wasn't there when clearly he was

Oh well least he phoned me and I knew the answer lol hope he doesn't ask me one about sport next time

Hello MB38.

Thankyou for the PM, it was most informative and gives a clearer picture of the events surrounding this issue.

The point I have been trying to make is that despite everyone saying that the child, at 13, is too young to make such a choice, he is Gillick Competant to make those decisions.

Let's face it. If this was a Father complaining that his son wanted to live with his Mother, there would be no support for him whatsoever. He would be told that the lad is old enough to make his own mind up and that he should be pleased that the lad still wants the Father involved in his life by virtue of regular visits.

My main "bug bear" was to see the OP daily laying into the Father and even blaming the son for being so insensitive and criticising him for the way he treats Women or/and his Mother....

I can tell that Mummybear38 is a lovely Woman who has a lot of heart and care for her family and it must be a shock to see the lad make such a choice when he has been cared and loved for. Obviously the lad loves his Mum and is himself in a very difficult situation and may feel pulled in 2 directions. The fact that he visits regularly and keeps in good contact tells me that he is really trying to juggle between the two of them and trying to keep the peace. He's a good lad.

My intrusion into this thread was because I was getting a bit fed up with the OP continually having a go at the Father for the lad's decision. As I said earlier, he is Gillick Competant to make these decisions for himself and would be backed by the Court if his views were asked. The Father cannot be blamed for wanting his son to live with him and the child should not be blamed for taking "sides."

I appreciate how this must hurt and feel like a betrayal but, as someone else said earlier, it is often the Father who loses out in these "wars" and yet it is treated as normal and acceptable.

I will admit that I am not a (((huggy))) person and perhaps my empathy is not on a par with some people. I mean no offence to anyone but I do like to post on how I sometimes see things and that can get in the way of the thread format where everyone else might have a different opinion.

I do wish you luck Mummybear38 and am pretty confident that things will turn out ok because I actually have quite a bit of faith in the lad's ability to keep things amicable between you. He loves to come and see you despite his unjustified accusations and is trying to make the best of a bad situation.

Good luck.

mummybear38 wrote:

During my ahem differing view points with Gargoyle earlier I had a phonecall from my son:

"hey up mum its me, dad is at his mates and me maths homework needs to be done by tomorrow and I don't know what 4 by the power of 4 means"

I then spent half an hour explaining to my son what it meant i.e. 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 and helped him with a few of the answers along the way until the penny dropped - during the conversation I could hear my ex in the background, "she's a smart arse"

Why couldn't my son just say "mum I need your help with my homework" why did he lie and say that his dad wasn't there when clearly he was

Because he didn't want to loose face and let you know that A. his dad didn't know the answer and B. he wanted help.

Gradually he'll come to realise that the grass isn't greener on the other side and that he's made a mistake.

He does however need to do it under his own steam and not loose face. As a teenager if he thinks someone else is getting him to do it or that he's loosing face then he'll dig his heels in.

He's still a child and whats encouraging was you were his first port of call when he needed help.

T