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The murky world of s25

  • Moloko4000
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14 Sep 24 #523997 by Moloko4000
Topic started by Moloko4000
Not entirely straightforward but please help with opinions on appropriate settlement as getting huge range from sols and barristers... done FDA, approach FDR, got nowhere with mediation, chats, etc. Think driven by ex is not happy with legal realities of equality and not checking before announcing divorce and was assuming walk away with 50% everything...

W46 h50
18year relationship 10 year marridge
1 child of marriage 10
5050 shared care, equal nights
W income 35hours per week 49k gross based on 35, also retains 1.3k child benefit, receives 500 pm from parents
H income from benefits PIP ESA support group 12k less 3k motability lease
FMH 325k equity
H 19k savings from settlement compensation
W 18k savings 3k child trust
Pensions within 20k at 175k each party
Cars chattels minor.

Issues
H remains in FMH currently would like to retain in mesher or buy out with family support.
H argues effectively no mortgage nor earnings capacity given disability. Buy out is gift from relative not something he can do.
H has disabilities/ mental health issues.
Child has autistic disability.
H worked in past 50-70k pa salary but not consistantly since 2016 redundancy as health deteriorated. Brief 3 months failed trials, highly fragmented income, tried minimum wage etc.
Seperation in 2022 likely due to H illness and reducing contribution financially.

W has mortgage cap of 240k, proposes 215k
W moved out to rent 1250 per month 3 bed property
W has claimed 18k savings spent on 'furnishings'
W claims monthly amounts from family are loans/savings etc
W new partner of 18months not cohabiting fully yet.

​​​​​​Key issues:-
Legal opinion ranges from 505 to 8020, little maintanence to 50% balance.

Housing needs - basic therory is 2 bed for both which could theoretically for the very worst market properties be covered with equity alone (tiny flats, 1 DBL 1 single). However that ignores previous standard of living (FMH large 4bed etc etc), W high mortgage capacity and earnings and the disabilities of both child and H and benefit reliance.
With equity and mortgage both could buy a 3bed similar to one rented by W for last 2.5years (also W form E refers to capital for 3 bed however sadly her solicitor argues error and 2 bed.is now fine!), 3 bed also meets child needs better (space for approaching teen, quiet, escape areas, outdoor, etc.) and would result in W having lower monthly. But to achieve 2x3bed requires a 75 25 FMH equity split in H favour with W taking on c. 1k per month mortgage.

Maintanence. Basic monthly incomes net are 3550 W 900 H. Does maintanence orders tend to just balance these in shared care? EG c. 1300 W to H ? However assume some offset if equity goes 75 25.
How can needs through disability be taken into account in the process EG space and housing for autistic kids without paying 5k for some report? Es 1 and 2 etc are poor at disclosing such factors to inform judges

Very acrimonious. In summary core issues are W believes H could easily go out to earn 70k, not working is deliberate to distort income and mortgage cap.
W argues H can get 47k mortgage on disability benefits
W argues if FMH equity alone can buy 2x2bed tiny flats that is equitable. Effectly the it's OK to live in a cave if it ticks box and W have 50k pa and no mortgage.
W on balance as soon as final will buy 4bed with long term partner (who rents flat)
W refusing any contributions for mortgage bills repairs as 'cannot afford' etc. to FMH.
H forced to use declining savings he can access, eventually UC will help.
W now arguing that on seperation was forced to quickly move into 1250 per month 3 bed rental (despite waiting 4 months to move following announcing separation, never mentioning this before and foegetting other 3 beds being 800-900 and many properties being available - but of course not premium brand new builds)
H confusion over previous standard, contribution, and judiciary guidance to avoid both to impose drastic reductions in standard.of living and also not to force reliance on benefits alone if other resources exist.
H in poverty vs. W good income predudice and stereotyping in proceedings as roles reversed and cynicism of 'fake' illness and not working used by some to maximise settlement

Generally it's a mess. A broken admin system that encourages poor conduct and escalating acrimony, ignores the lawfare now it's so easy to apply to court and is poor to facilitate simple communication of needs in more complex cases involving disability etc. Over 2.5 years in and running out of money? Sols just want to keep litigating and being ever more devious

Help!?! Am I resigned to go to FH as the only route to have disability taken into a count - all attempts at discussion and reason rejected. Literally 'will only discuss in court arena' at 3k per day or 500 per hour.

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14 Sep 24 #523998 by Moloko4000
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For clarity 3 bed X2 being reasonable and achievable based on 2x purchase of c. 260k with some fees = 530k total less equity of 330k and 200k W mortgage (c. 1k per month repayment@85% ltv). 260k is absolute lowest realistic purchase price for a 3 bed, below that into 2 beds.

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21 Sep 24 #524063 by Moloko4000
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Bump. Please can anyone give a POV on these challenges, can't afford endless fees!

  • EMC3419
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21 Sep 24 #524064 by EMC3419
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I think something close to 50/50 is realistic. Maybe slightly in favour of H but certainly not 80/20, that would be preposterous when W is only on £49k herself.

Mesher order, forget it. It would just kick the problem down the road for both parties and there is already too much acrimony for it to work. Plus H doesn't seem likely to be able to afford to pay any mortgage or maintain the property.

Maintenance will be CMS calculated figure if care is not split 50/50, otherwise it will be nothing. No chance of spousal maintenance here because W doesn't earn enough and H is reliant on benefits he would lose because of the unearned income.

There was a very similar case to this a few years back and outcome was close to 50/50 split and no spousal maintenance.

In terms of interim, W would not be expected to contribute to the FMH mortgage or bills if not living there. She has her own rent and bills to pay and H is enjoying sole use of jointly owned property.

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21 Sep 24 #524065 by EMC3419
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I should have asked what the disability was. Generally if it is obvious, physical or long term the court will acknowledge it.

One thing to be cautious of though are disabilities like depression. A litigant may well find a court reluctant to accept people with mental health issues cannot work at all; the attitude will be go and get treated and find out what work can be done.

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21 Sep 24 #524066 by EMC3419
Reply from EMC3419
ND v LD (Financial Remedy: Needs) [2022] EWFC B15 was the case I was thinking of. This should be a useful reference for both parties although this couple rented.

With the house the court is going to be looking for a Clean Break as soon as possible.

  • Moloko4000
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21 Sep 24 #524067 by Moloko4000
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Amazing detail thankyou, I'll work through case study. I see huge disparities in opinion on this making it a nightmare divorce and classic why the UK system drives long litigation, it's a lottery!

child disability is autism so long term needs
H is ADHD, autism and anxiety depression so long term.

H very fragmented employment, almost zero in 9 years. Very unlikely to change or H to magically recover and work full/part sustainably.

I am very surprised that with W on 49k, H benefits 10k equal shared care that outcome no maintanence? So H survives on 10k W on 50K - agree 50 not huge but is compared to 10!

Housing also you appear to suggest/understand mortgage cap is also ignored so outcome H with child small flat W with child takes equity and buys large 4 bed with a small mortgage.

These do not appear equitable outcomes. It is hard to ignore the apparent sexism if H walked out on W leaving them to survive solely on benefits would result be same?

Understanding on guidance on needs from the judicial report is to maintain lifestyle, not ignore significant mortgage capacity and for main breadwinner to recover financially, etc. etc.

Complex issues, very hard to get across.

In summary H little chance to recover, needs c.8020ush split to rehouse which would require W to borrow at similar level to rent.

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